Now the fug seem a bit down on power compared to the brothers Beach buggy.
However it has a 1500 gearbox so it would if it had the power cruise at 75-80 equates to about 3500rpm according to the tacho.
But round town it is a bit slow
Looking at the following anyone done this or suggestions
Bosch 009 dizzy plus electronis ignition
Twin down drafts but what webber or dellorto's.
But what exhaust is legal but reasonable fre flowing with a nice sound.
I may just by a baffled stinger for local use?
It also has some ram air thing for the cooling which Inotice none of your fug have on and all the heat shield stuff on plus a massive air filter arrangement.
It has an internal steel floor plus alloy outer floor.
any suggestions ideas.

:blink: :blink: :blink: :blink:

Yep

I have just remove some massive and weighty ram air thing for ducting air to the cooling fan.

Also notice the front inner bonnet is all wood so that can be made of alloy at some stage.

The steel floor will be cut out and be replaed with alloy checker plate at some stage much later.

Lots of maintenace things to first.
Brake hoses to be replaced
Brake fluid changed.

Clutch adjustment from some where the bell housing end is all taken up.
Track rod end
cleaning lots of degreasing gator for steering knuckle
Anyone got a diagram of the accelerator arrangement I am sure mine is not right ?
Elcetric choke do these work mine doesn't seem to do anything?

thats all foks

oh and it's loads and loads of fun it must be illegal ....................... :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Bob B)

Complicated ducting, wooden interior, two floors - sounds like one extraordinarily heavy Fug you've got there, Bob!

I have :

• no ducting
• no interior panels
• only one floor

I think that we need some photos of this stuff!

The accelerator cable, as standard (on a beetle), runs up the middle of the car in a steel tube, through the middle of the fan housing and connects to the carb. The UVA instructions were something along the lines of 'work something out' IIRC ;)

The electric choke should open and close a flap in the carb.

Well....Weber 34 ICTs work for my 1600 and a 'Spark Arrester' exhaust - a newish thing from the US instead of traditional silencer. Works a treat, Beautiful sound (and just legal) but still lets engine breath.

I also have the 009 Bosch and electronic ignition both good as is a deep sump extention - vital for fast cornering VW engines (i.e. those in fugs) as enough oil can go on holiday up your push-rod tubes such that the sump-scavenge runs dry and its goodbye main bearings. :blink: Just a thought! :D

...................
Mike

where did you get your spark arrester Fugepilot?
surely a baffle sump would be better than more oil swilling around?

What in your nose cone thingy I have a spare wheel jack long wheel brace and as said its wood lined plus a wood battery box.

DVD how come you have a hydraulic clutch and accelerator?

One more thing do you have windscreen wiper stalk or switch on dash.

Bob :D :D :D

Sounds like yours is coach-built Bob! All that wood must be heavy. :(
My bonnet/cone thing ;) is all fibre-glass, original UVA I assume. As to what's inside it will have to be a few pics I'm afraid. B) Anyway, they help answer your other question, my wiper stalk can be seen on the 1972 the Beetle stock column. The wipermotor is also Beetle, the linkage has been shortened and the spindle comes through the screen.

Got the Spark Arrester from either 'Big Boys Toys' or 'Street Style and Power' cost for the whole system (pic below) was around £140, I think. Not too much at the time c.f. other traditional systems - and that is a quality bit of S/Steel, weight I don't mind lugging around.

To your other Q - putting a 'windage' baffle in means splitting the cases, loads of work :( for something only partially sucessful. Cut to the chase, the Scat deep sump you can see (pics below) just bolts on to the same place your standard sump-plate was i.e. a fat deep-sump sandwich. You fit the scavenge-pipe extention put the sump-plate back on and fill with oil only to the bottom of the dip stick (I always fill to the bottom mark to be on the safe side). The idea being that the cam doesn't have to thrash through so much oil thus saving power-loss and less chopping-up of the long-chain oil molecules. So you wouldn't nessessarily have that much more oil swilling about.

Under the Bonnet...







Under the Boot...



You would tell me if I was over doing the pics thing... :blink:

Spotted these:

http://www.volkszone.com/VZi/showthread.php?t=183837

Might be a bit big for a 1600 though.

FP those photos the more pic the better very interesting a lot less space than a fug 2 under the bonnet. What are all those dials and warning lights switches. interesting I owe you some photos of mine so I will try and get them asap

cheers

Bob after 25yrs biking with almost no dials/switches I'm afraid I just couldn't help it. :ph43r: There is even one (voltmeter) not visible - on the offside obscured by the column. There is another one to come (at least), when I have the dosh namely cylinder head temp.

From the top left (main binnacle):
Dials -
speedo,
oil-pressure (upper), oil-temp (lower)
fuel
tacho
amps (left)
vacuum (right)
clock (on/off switch lower left)

Lights -
signal
main beam
oil-pressure warning/high temp warning (dip-stick sender)
charge
Right of tacho = hazard warning switch/light
below that = push/pull side/head-light switch
above clock = boot-light switch + idiot light
below clock = binnacle interior light (see door on left side)

on the bit below binnacle = battery isolation switch
little panel to right of central binnacle holds big red warning light for auxillary cooling fan over the top of remote oil-cooler (which is the round thing on the back of engine-cover - which nobody asked me about :( ) the switch is wedged in top left on main binnacle. To the right is interior light switch (see brass looking thingy left of passenger legs) and the washer stalk which rests against under side of demister whose hot/cold on/off switch is to the right of column. Smaller red light below with small push button tester is brake fluid level. To the right of these are rear fog idiot light and switch. Below these are brake-pressure test :- switch on, press brake peddle and the light should go out (switch is at the master cylinder). To the left is the cigar lighter.
Also, out of sight on the right above voltmeter is the spot-light switch + idiot light.
Well you did ask. :D

your car is very interesting and if you don't mind copy a few things off it. I like the idea of a demister.

I am already consider the dip stick sender for oil temp and oil presure guage.

Mine has not so many dials just speedo and tacho fuel and low fuel light.

It seem to be going better now I got rid of the electric choke and the thotlle was adjusted so it fully opened. It seemed quite happy at 75-85mpn. I have been to Margate and back from Southend today just got back.
I had to picked up some linkages and manifolds. Also a Bosch 009 distributor and track rod end that needs replacing.

Lakeside (Thurrock) has three VW store German and Swedish, big boys toys and another.
They didn't have the exhaust you recommended in stock. said I would have to order it. It will have to wait till next month as I have spent up for this month.

:D
PS I did notice that remote oil cooler but didn't realise that was what it was.

I guess it 's focused for off roading where you are?

Aaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Of course. The curse of the kit-car! I should have thought of that really.

Half the kit-cars ever built seem to suffer from it. And three quarters of the cars with carburettor conversions. The throttle seems to be a blind spot among kit car builders and tuners - I dunno why. Spend a lot of time building a car and engine then lash up the throttle!

I can't claim to be perfect in this respect, either ............

Soon it will be a spare part and overhauled just in case but it does seem to be very economical.

I went From Southend to Margate and back and didn't use too much.
More than 35mpg at 70-80 mph

On another note do I need to put lead substitute in my 1600 twin port?

I have read some where they have harden valve seats.
What is the official line?

It certainly goes better with a shot of the stuff in the unlead tank.

B)

Bob

DVD
I just notice your fuggin like mad does this mean another round of drinks you owe us :D

Your car is kinda of a target to aspire to for my mobile wood robe fug. ;)
some stuff just has to go like those steel chequer plate floors must weigh a ton.

Bob

This link may be of interest. <_<

http://www.johnmaherracing.co.uk/technotes.htm

I bottled out of answering that one as I had been told lots of times that my heads would be ok to use unleaded with, but I went out and bought a set of unleaded heads anyway - seems that I don't have the courage of my convictions.

But, thought about rationally - if you don't buy new heads and use unleaded, and your valve seats recede after a few years, then what's the worst that's going to happen? Erm, you have to buy a new set of heads?

very interesting FP

I think a précised version of this on the web site with link to the original site would be useful
For both oil and fuel additives can I run on unleaded?

one for Paul

I don't mind précising the article

Bob

I agree with dvd8n, been sloshing in the unleaded from the start - seems fine so far. Also, starting to cost-up 1800cc conversion (need more power :ph43r: ) thus new heads may be a more fitting environment for the stainless valves, needle-roller rockers and other heavy duty bits I'm dreaming of to appropriately beef-up the valve-train. So slap it in and no worries :) , you can have my old ones. :D

As to the off-road focus of my fug. It was intended to be a long distance road machine, Bike replacement even. However, living among so many Forestry tracks the fug's considerable off-road potential is being willfully explored. A slight oil leak subsequent to a recent offroad session suggests several modifications - sump-guard being foremost. The off-road focus is sharpening.

I need more power I have decide than twin carbs and manifolds still isn't enough.

What's next to upgrade?
I want about 105-15 at the fly wheel

how do I acheive this 1761 or bigger?
any suggestion ?

Now have dual IDF carbs blue coil petronix elec ignitor and Bosch 009.
1.75 merged baja headers on shopping list.

Off to weigh bridge on Wednesday to see how heavy car is?
Been nagged about all excess weight carrying by brother 4
brother 1 actively pursuing Beach buggy so fug must be faster to preserve honour.

Order in for aluminuim race seats and angle grinder will be weilded this weekend steel checker floor is comeing out. May have to use it to get old seats out can see how they fix in?

weight saved so far 30 kilo's remove air ram system and adaptor.

For a road application, John Maher suggests that 1761cc is plenty. However, there is always the NITROUS OXIDE option. :ph43r:

Pansies!!!

How are you ever going to break a gearbox :D :D

Hey, Hey! Bit rich from Mr single carb. B)

Nitrous should expose any weakness in the trans methinks. :)

Bobacat - why dont you listen to me more!!!!!!........you need an alfa romeo 1.7 flat 4, comes with twin-dual webbers as standard, 115Bhp for the 8v........135 Bhp for the 16v injected version.......cheaply available from specialist alfa breakers........all you need is an adaptor plate kit from GB engineering for about £250, and your away.......come around to my place and take a look at my 1.5 alfa-sud installation.......95Bhp missile mate!........forget tuning the VW aircooled lump, it will cost loads and probably 5hit itself within a year........I design engines for a living, and believe me the alfa flat-4 engines realy are very good

:(

Knightly

Yes you are right after being quoted about £1700= to take my 1600 to 1761.

So far I have spent about £300 for the following
Twin IDF carburettors, manifolds, linkages and filters.
Petronixs ignitor, Petronixs coil and Petronixs leads Platinum plugs
Bosch 009 distributor
But boy does this baby run smooooooth.
.
Tempting though an Alfa is.
I used to drive my mum’s Alfasud Ti in the 1980’s great fun blowing off the XR3’s.
It’s just too much work for me now.

VW parts seem over priced considering they come from Mexico where they have cheap labour rates.
The quality of empi stuff is not brilliant I have to say.
But then I have head some horror stories with crocked chassis from Bug pack.
Large availability of performance and style spares for VW unlike I imagine the AlFa engines.

So I won’t be going on a spending spree for a 1761.
Just a few more mods
Maybe a Bobcat and spark arrestor muffler
A 120 cam.
New exhaust valve as mine has done over 50k and then tend to drop them after this.
Probably do the head while it’s off
It will have to be quick enough for now.

You know you have to tear the engine apart to fit a cam? It's right in the middle of the engine.

DVD

yep one for the winter nights then.
I am thinking that maybe that wouldn't be such a bad idea.
I can check how healthy the engine is as well.
I have had two track controls joints on the driver side go.
The rear nearside brake needs attention as it's rubbing
It needs a new Battery and also check the charging circuit.
A good go over really required.

Sent the missus off to the library to get some Haynes manuals as none have turn up yet at my local charity shops left my phone number.
I think it's ready for new exhaust valves (50,000) so I will get have to get the head done first. May aswell pop larger valves in when I do it.

That's the spirit Bob! :D :ph43r: :D

have just seen a 1776cc engine for sale on volkszone, its fully specced up to the eyeballs.......the guy has spent £3500 on it........and the power.......100Bhp........I have just been to hospital to have my sides sewn up, as I split them while laughing so much :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: .........what a waste of money

Knigthly
GDay
I Kinda of agree with you mate
He must be a willy wonka to pay that or Donald Trump

Their a good engine and if you know what you are doing their cheap.
People get carried a way with these vw shops.
Their kinda of in with all the blue rinse beach buggy set more money than sense hence all the prices go up :angry:

Engine Type 1,1776cc
Cam Engle 110
Carbs Dellorto 40 DRLA x 2
Heads 1600 twin port (35.5 x 32mm)
Compression ratio 7.6:1
Max BHP 101.7bhp @ 5500rpm
Max Torque 110.5ftlbs @ 3500rpm
Ring & Pinion 3.88
Gear Ratios 3.78/2.06/1.26/.92
0 - 60mph 7.4 seconds
1/4 mile 15.86 @ 84.7mph


Alfa
Max BHP 105 bhp @6000
Max Torque 92.5ftlbs @ rpm 4500

Torque = acceleration BHP= top speed
so torque is what we after here

So the 1761 will out drag your car I am afraid beacuse more torque and lower down in the rev range.
It will probably last a lot longer as wel 1761 in this trim is not really stressed that much.

You may have a higher top speed but as beetles are so low geared I doubt it.


My 1761 pushes 115 bhp at her rear wheels.
It pretty much as far I would want to go with the engine
That's a proper tune mind rolling road etc. Help if you can get free access via a mate.
The only problem I've got is stopping the bastard thing from wheeling seriously!!
Must move fuel tank to front of car B)
The other thing to remeber is the VW make its torque low down so no thrashing it like an Alfa.
Torque = acceleration BHP= top speed
so torque is what we after here

Built from scrap engines cost less than £99.00 all in a bit on the pricey side I know
It's really bitza with bit of Mad max engineering of course.

It took out some small block cobra at santa pod.

The blokes face priceless as my fug just looks a sh*t bucket but she does the figures.

I have a new engine on the bench at the moment in build but almost ready to be swapped and that'a whole new ball game it stands me in £129.00 ouch that's expensive !
but well he's a big fella at 2.1 and rather special if I say so myself ;)
Still 90 bore some long thro's do it right.
JMR predicts sub 13's qtr mile with the horse she will be packing.
mine is slightly bigger
Engine Type 1, 2007cc
Cam Engle FK87 similar cam lift charcterics
Carbs Weber 48 IDA x 2 yep free rebuild kit for one ouch!
Heads Super Flo (44 x 38mm) similar my own verison
Compression Ratio 10.7:1
Max BHP 190.5 @ 7000rpm
Max Torque 154.2 ftlbs @ 6000rpm
Ring & Pinion 4.12
Gear Ratios 3.78/2.35/1.56/1.19
0 - 60mph 3.5 secs
1/4 mile 12.2 @ 109 mph

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Music to my ears :ph43r: HJBA ...I doff my forlock. ;) Sounds a monster mill! I want one. :D

No pics yet... :(

I has been pondering this torque thing. Me'sa think I need a 2000c T4 transporter engine me'sa fug. these seem a lot cheaper than buying or building a 1761.

what say you all ?

around a 100bhp stock and loads more torque standard tune without any bits whoopeee

this baby needs a torque arm to stop it bending the transmission horns

this what people say

http://www.tunacan.net/t4/owners/

why type 4

http://www.tunacan.net/t4/why.htm

oh lovely I can reuseby idf carbs my merged header so thats 100 bh p in standard form plus more relibility and more pontential for tunning
upto 3 litres now then this is my kind of engine :D :D

After a little bit of performance razzle-dazzle, the T4 can be brought up to a max of over 3L, make over 200 hp NA without too much difficulty. There are some performance heads coming out in the next few months that are supposed to be able to bring this engine up to 375hp@8000rpm, NATURALLY ASPIRATED
May be that a bit too much power but at least you know you can get it

way cheaper than £3000.

2L AIR cooled engine, from 1981 T25, all ready out of bus and waiting to be picked up! ~82k miles, £200, Rugby, 07973 352691.

This ad was booked on 10/08/2005.

The trans case are much more robust

and to all you who think it will stick out the end cop this

http://www.massivetype4.com/index2.shtml
DTM for vertical cooling and it's much more efficient.

Type 4 engines are a reasonable choice. The big advantage that type 1 engines have is that they have way more tuning and dress up goodies available. If that's not an issue for you then go type 4.

Don't forget there's the wasserboxer engine to choose from, too. But that's not air cooled so it's bordering on the heresy that is the alfa engine :P

I understand from a little birdy that HJBA new engine is a type 4.

I have my ears to the ground ;)
Sources say its been on the the dyno it gave 215 bhp clean and torque was very impressive too :blink: that enough for anyone with a light car like a fugitive.
My infomantant said he was heard to muttering something about a Saab injection system he found in a scrappy to be added?!!
It's gona be awesome thing I dont fancy the Alfa chances :P
Don't forget you can stick on the Porsche head for a 914 if you got some deep pockets I presume.

Whe you consider what he says he paid for the whole thing must make those guys with 1760's etc weep. :(

I can't beleive he is running standard heads and valves though.

what else has done to it? I don't think we have been given the whole story

Yeah...let it out HJBA you know you will feel better. :unsure:

Hello HJBA - the point of my post was the money spent versus the power gained, you seem have cracked the nut of producing a cost effective motor producing good power........hence this is why I favour the Alfa engines - good value for money. Fugitives are not worth a lot of money, hence I always advise on overspending on a power house of an engine.........but you can always sell the engine seperate

thanks for the lecture on why torque is better than power.......not quite true I'm afraid........I am a degree qualified design engineer, I have been designing engines for 6 years, 3 of those years were in the motorsport industry, BTCC, Le-mans, WRC, Indy-car, been there done that got the T-shirt,

I hold a national race licence and spent 2 years racing a slicks and wings single seater on all the UK race circuits, my car powered by a 170Bhp Honda Blackbird bike engine........all the Formula Ford Zetec boys were forever saying torque is everything, the bike engine is the wrong way to go.........my car, which weighed the same, but also wings, with considerably less torque ate 150Bhp Forumla Ford Zetecs for breakfast quite easily, on the race track power is everything........just take a look around the race industry, everyone is chasing power......not torque.

Do you know the difference between torque and power?.......torque is force X distance about a point........power is the amount of work done per unit of time.........hence everyone is chasing more and more revs to get more power - to get more speed........this is not a personal opinion, its what everyone is doing in the race industry

Knightly

I beg to differ power is not everthing as you well know but I take you point.
My explanation was too simplistic but by and large two engine with relatively equal power the one with the better torque characteristics will win.

This was the point I was trying to make.

I do not disagree that the Alfa is a more efficent design.
It's also conderable more complex.
It's has more compromises in terms of cost because its more modern design.
i.e. "a lot of cost engineering going on I suspect especially Italians"


Bike versus car engine is a whole different ball game as you know very well. That's like comparing chalk and cheese.


Circuit racing is different to road use where BHP is more important for higher top speeds.


re torque power
SI unit for torque is the Newton-meter.
The torque units contain a distance and a force.
To calculate the torque, you just multiply the force by the distance from the center.

The SI unit for power is the watt.
One watt is equal to 1 Newton-meter per second (Nm/s).
You can multiply the amount of torque in Newton-meters by the rotational speed in order to find the power in watts.
Another way to look at power is as a unit of speed (m/s) combined with a unit of force (N). If you were pushing on something with a force of 1 N, and it moved at a speed of 1 m/s, your power output would be 1 watt.

Hence the ability to do work is dependant on the torque generated by the engine.
Hence more torque greater accleration ( simplistically speaking).
More power greater top speed

My brother design engines for a living and he will tell you the same thing.
He has quite a few to his name.
Oh and the Zetec have a crappy torque curve according to Bro he worked on them for Fords they decide to go for more bhp marketing boys again sticking there oar in.
In fact even their current desiel have crap low down torque which is unsual.
Marketing boys again wanting higher bhp because thats what everyone looks at.
It make the cars less drivable though.
Fortunately he is off to work for BMW who are far more engineer friendly and have less politics going on better pay etc etc.

yaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnn.........I'm obviously wasting my breath on you. the statement you wrote below is just so wrong

"Hence the ability to do work is dependant on the torque generated by the engine.
Hence more torque greater accleration ( simplistically speaking).
More power greater top speed".........where did you read that crap, max power?

........I think its best we agree to diagree,

Alright lads, we've all had a drink, lets keep it calm now.........And as for you Bobacat, I do believe you started it !!

This topic is now closed I have receievd the information I needed thanks to evryone who replied

The soloution for anyone that's interested

Is

Make it as light as possible.
Type 4 with a MTR if you want a relatively cheap option with less modification needed to the frame and ancillaries etc
However some may wish to re engine the frame to a more modern engine choice this must be balanced with the greater complexity to do this.

Bob