does anyone have any spec on this ?

double wishbones, I think it used triumph herald front uprights, but could have been beetle uprights too.......to be honest, I was looking at converting to a double wishbone suspension system, then realised the sort of lap times the formula vee racers were doing......basically the same times as 1600 formula fords, therefore the front beam aint actually that bad.......also its a 5hit load of work involved.

upon looking, the f.vee racers, they use a well positioned steering rack, as its the beetle steering box that gives the front suspension all its crap features, particularly bump steer, which makes tha car very nervous at speed, I just could not believe my eyes how much both wheels toed in and out by just gently jumping on the front suspension........its really crap......I intend to do something very similar to tiggars set-up using a conventional steering rack.........

I also have 2 pictures of a road going fug-2 with front double wishbone suspension, its on my work computer, I think once UVA developed the F33, they offered it as an option for the rest of the fugitive range....... I'll dig out the pics and post them here for you on monday.

here you go - not all that brilliant pics really, but I'm assured it had double wishbones, would be interesting to know where this fug now lives?........I have the guys e-mail address who used to own it, but he sold it donkeys years ago and dosent know who owns it now

This is very interesting how easy was it to do tiger's setup seems alot less hassle as you say. Looking at the chasis of F33 it does looka trifle messy.

I quite like the idea of porsche brakes alround but how much work is this?

still keen on an irs rear end and bus trans axle seems to be what most people advise?

Look like a new Chasis from bug pack is on the cards as all the places I have spoken to change it back to standard are roughly the same price at around £700.00
.
For that I get a brand new chasis 2+2 with irs rear but they don't offer front wishbone suspension. This leave with my old chasis to sell.
Obviously I need the old chasis number transferred to the new chassis as this is the least painfull in terms of DVLA.
It's what they do with Elans when they need new chasis's.

bob if I was in your shoes heres what I'd do

Porsche 944 rear IRS arms, for extra 100mm track width, and the disc brakes, also will be stiffer as the 944 torsion beams are thicker, as pointed out by tiggar I think

I'd go for a ball-joint front beam with disks and a steering rack conversion.

as for the gear box - just a conventional bug IRS box will do me thinks - why do you want a camper box?......

personally for the engine, I'd mid mound an alfa 33 1.7 8v or 16v engine on the standard alfa gearbox, it will fit a treat in a mid mounted application, being a 4 seater you will deffo have the room, I personally think the vw air cooled are unreliable, underpowered, and expensive to tune. go for something a bit more modern! the radiator packaging is a piece of p*ss, they dont have to be as big as you think.

I have also just spoken to mogs, the bloke selling the off-road fug 2, ha has also converted to a steering rack and says its well worth doing, he used a modified vauxhall corsa steering rack. hes sorting me some pics, will post them as and when

Knightly

yep agree with the suspension setup

did you get any specific's re formula vee front end.
I have seen a forum they look a friendly buch so may stick a question on their
Do you know whether they allowed to use irs rear ?
it looks a cheap way into single seat racing?

How much work is involved to fit the corsa rack there have been quite a few remarks on VW golf mk1 stering rack conversions on vzi?
From your laat post you suggest placement of the rack is critical for optimium performance.
This sort of stuff in a how to would be really useful .
Like your Alfa conversion should be in a pdf.

Apparently 944 front disc conversion is straight forward, but the back depend on waht year your suspension is off. I will try and find the stuff.
Anyway tiger should know all this

I like the sound of 944 all round but what cost we talking here for the bits ? and how much modifying is needed.

Yep the Alfa would be nice mid mounted but I want the extra seats fo little ones.
There is always agruement now who goes in it.

My VW is quick enough for me at the moment but when it's not I know where to come. :D

I wonder how much Tiger spent on his fug with a proper VW engine?


Do you know anywhere that bends and welds tubing in Essex ?

cheers

Evening all, has this site been down recently? Couldn't get into it last week?

To shed a little light on the F33 front end I (somewhere) have the original spec sheets for this from UVA at the time. Certainly the spec I have (from memory) used 1303 'hammerhead' front half flloorpan with the bottom arm and triangulated anti roll bar with 1303 ball joint and stub axle. However where the strut went up it was cut level and a fabricated wishbone with inboard coil overs was used. Very clever but simple.

The 944 rear brakes if you opt for an earlier spec (still big) will bolt striaght on to a swing axle rear end. I only went for the bigger stuff because of the power I was intending to use, plus I am using trailing arms anyhow. Front wise is a little more tricky but.. do - able. Again if you opt for an earlier spec its more straight forward with only a spacer needed for the bigger bearings. Cost wise not as dear as you may think...my front brake set up to buy from a Porsche breakers was £150 all in, but I did then have to m/c spindles etc to fit it after that. The rear end complete with trailing arms, all brakes, torsion bars, spring plates, drive shafts and a anti roll bar was about £500. Compare that with the cost of an after market brake conversion and its cheap, plus you are getting so much more B)

I like the idea of a Alfa conversion ...lovely engine. I thought keeping air cooled would make it simplier, wot a folly that was with the dry sumping it was a nightmare. But if I did it again it would be mid mounted...

Total cost....probably best not to go there!! But it was over 15yrs
Hope the above is useful :P

Of course air-cooled is the way to go! It's the only way! It's like a natural law or something.

Look at the manufacturers that have gone that way!

Volkswagen, Porche...........

erm

Tatra............

erm

erm

Citroen 2cv.............

erm...........



:wub:

Hi all, I've just popped on here genning up before a possible future purchase, whilst looking at this thread I found the pics of the black Fugitive with the double wishbone setup mentioned above, well I was that previous owner all those years ago, those two pics were taken by me, I must have also scanned them at some point and uploaded them somewhere, but I can't remember when or where. I also can't remember registering on here in 2007. :D

The car in question turned up locally a year or two ago, completely rebuilt and since resold, the vendor at that time seemed to believe that it was one of only 2 of that body (non 30/33 I presume) built with the double wishbone front end.

So why am I here now? Well I've fancied playing with something 'different' again for a while, (I'm a die hard VW nut) and my boss owns a basic Fugitive tat he built years ago purely for off road fun. It's never been road registered, and could be mine soon.
My thoughts were to mid mount a Subaru lump with the Subaru box in the rear. I came here to find out what the current thoughts were regarding front end suspension set ups, I had wondered if the double wishbone set up was commonly available, but clearly it's not. To clarify some of the questions above, I'm 100% certain that the front uprights were normal 66> balljoint Beetle, with fabricated wishbones.
So what to do at the front end? Design a new double wishbone set up? Borrow something off a donor car? Perhaps another kit? Lotus/Caterham/Westfield 7?

At the back I'm thinking I'll have to ditch the stock VW torsion bar setup, firstly it will likely be in the way of the engine, and secondly I'll have to move the axle back in order to accommodate the engine and box a reasonable distance behind the seats, I'm aware that the mid mounted 30/33 had the passenger cabin moved forwards to achieve a similar effect. Can anyone see a reason why I shouldn't move the axle back instead?
With all this in mind I figured 944 alloy rear A arms, use the alloy spring plate covers (which have mounts with rubber bushes)hung off new bracketry on the frame, cut down the 944 torsion tube just inboard of the inner rear A arm mounts. Obviously there will also need to be provision on the inner ends of the now two piece tube to support the tubes from the frame.
Hopefully the gap in the centre will be wide enough to clear the engine and ancillaries. In place of the torsion bars and spring plates, I figured on a short portion of the original spring plates cut down, hung in the stock bushes, but made adjustable length using threaded rods. Coil overs could then support the body at the rear and do spring/shock duties. Any thoughts on that little lot most welcome. Edit, I see that Tigger on here has the rear end set up I had in mind already, but actually even simpler and better as it does away with the rear bushes completely, using rose joints instead. Cheers Andy.